Problems with the new dog

[sab316]

My dog is 15 months old, was at the trainer (Steve Vires) for 4 months this summer, then for 1 month right before season. Well he sliced his leg open and didn't hunt the Arkansas opener. Took him the next weekend. This will be his first ever duck hunt. He's always had HUGE desire for retrieving, and went crazy about ducks at the trainer. Trainer even took him to North Dakota and hunted pheasant over him for the month he was at the trainer before season, said he did great. His greatest fear was that the puppy would come out and he would wanna run around and play with the duck instead of bringing it back. He's always been a little soft, and you couldn't use much pressure on him. Pretty submissive.

We are out on his first hunt. 4 guys and myself (I'm not shooting). Birds come in right at first light, they shoot and drop a few. He sees nothing... but its cloudy and still real dark... no big deal. It gets lighter, and ducks come in. They shoot and he runs.... I know he's been gun conditioned, I've shot over him working him in the summer. Mr. Steve took him hunting himself and shot over him, plus with 4 months of training. We decide to round up the dead birds, I take him out there to a dead teal, tell him to "fetch it up" and he does.

We get to a shoveler that is swimming in circles.... he sniffs and runs. Tell him to "fetch it up" and nothing. Then he started to get to where he wouldn't even pick up a dead bird on the water. So we get set back in blind... I'm frustrated of course... we shoot again, he's not even looking to see birds falling. Sees nothing. Wants to retrieve nothing. Finally we shoot one, hits water right in-front of him. Ears perk up, and I sent him to retrieve it. He WALKED out to it, very warily, and then the guys shot in a complete 180 degrees to him, he comes back to land and rolls over on his back like he's being submissive. And rolls over on his back when I tell him to come lay down.

We wrap up the hunt on a cold morning, and as everyone is picking up decoys I get a dead bird, and start tossing it for him. The desire is there, the drive is there, he's running to get the bird, he's having fun, he's doing what he loves.

So I called the trainer, he says he's never done that to him before, and to bring him back down to check him out. He throws him a bumper in the yard, he runs over to hit, sniffs it, and walks off. Trainer takes him back over, gives command, he tries to walk off. So trainer pinches that ear, he fetches it right up. Same with trying to get him in a kennel. He went into a kennel Mr. Steve didn't want him to go in. Tells him to get into the right one, he rolls over on his back again! Steve pinches his ear, he jumps right up and into the right kennel.

He's been down with him for a week, says he's still doing some of the rolling over on his back, and he's never had a dog do that to him before. Said he can throw a bumper and a bird. He'll haul balls to bring the bumper back, goes out and just mouths at the bird. Said he's taking more and more pressure as well, and "digging his feet in". Steve said he KNOWS what he needs to do, its just getting him over the hump to do it every time. He's never been a Alpha dog, he's always been pretty submissive.

Now I have full faith in Mr. Steve, and he would straight up tell me if he didn't think my dog had it in him to be a good duck dog. I know he wouldn't ever be trail dog, but I figured we'd have some good hunting trips together for a long time. Right now he's being super hard headed though. Like I said I trust Mr. Steve, but I figured more opinions on the matter couldn't hurt.

I was just wondering if anyone else had ever experienced anything like this, I know this was a novel of a post, but I needed to get all the information I could out there.

[rboudet]

I would start looking for a new dog if that were an option. Just doesnt sound like he has much prey drive or desire. Its one thing when they do it because they want to, (throwing fun bumpers) when you start telling them they have to do it sometimes the wheels can fall off.

Do you really want to keep pushing, pushing and putting money into a dog like this when he really doesnt want to do it? You will only keep getting more frustrated. and picking up your own ducks while he rolls on his back in the blind.

[ragon]

Steve will shoot you straight, whether you like what he is saying or not, he knows dogs and can figure and will figure out what is going on, I would listen to him! He will not let you spend your money on it if he thinks it is a washout. He gives a dog a chance, all dogs progress at differant levels. Are you close enuff to Steve for him to hunt with you so he can see what is going on , he probably could deal with it in the enviroment at the time it is happening!

[sab316]

Steve will shoot you straight, whether you like what he is saying or not, he knows dogs and can figure and will figure out what is going on, I would listen to him! He will not let you spend your money on it if he thinks it is a washout. He gives a dog a chance, all dogs progress at differant levels. Are you close enuff to Steve for him to hunt with you so he can see what is going on , he probably could deal with it in the enviroment at the time it is happening!

Yeah I know Mr. Steve is gonna shoot me straight. He told me on the front end he wasn't going to waste my money and his time. He was completely shocked when I told him what he was doing. He said he'd never done that before in 4 months of training. He loves birds and has done well with every other part of training. Even said he did great hunting over him in ND.

I'm real close to him but we do all our hunting in Arkansas. He was going to take him hunting this weekend.

[chance]

I have had a retriever for the past 22 years. No matter the training, they all seem to do what they have never done those first several times hunting. Gunshy, won't retrieve, poor manners in the blind, no interest in hunting......
The relationship between you and your retriever is very important during that first hunting season. Once the dog learns that poor behavior is not corrected in the proper manner, a habit begins.
If you are unsure have the trainer be part of the hunting experience, if at all possible. Sounds like your trainer is ameniable to that process. You are fortunate. Most would not.
Don't give up so quickly. Spend time with your dog so that a bond can be created and both understand the needs of the other.