Obama and Gays

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farmerc83
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby farmerc83 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Seymore wrote:[quote="farmerc83What is the #1 cause of divorce in the US? Its handling of finances...not sex, whether or not to have a baby, or dividing chores based on historical gender norms. Could it possibly be best for our country to prioritize similarly?
Quoting Seymore
"Actually, the number one cause of divorce is the MISHANDLING of finaces. So the country and those marriages falling apart because of finances are already similar.[/quote]"

That was my point. As Po Monk said, this isn't going to cause heterosexual folks to start rubbin' weiners or getting butch haircuts , and neither would allowing civil unions. As for the sin part, it wouldn't surprise me if at the current point in time in the United States, there are more married people cheating on their spouse than there are gay people. What are we afraid of, that the divorce rate will be lower in civil unions than it is with those married at the alter?
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby Greenhead22 » Fri May 11, 2012 3:16 pm

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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby greenheadgrimreaper » Sat May 12, 2012 11:06 am

I read an AP report on blacks and their opinions of Obama and gays. Since they are historically the the group with the most opposition towards gays they should be up in arms right? Of course not. Not a big surprise by any means. But at least black folks call it like it is- it's pure politics. He doesn't bellieve in gay marriage. Of course he's a politician so he is going to pander to get votes. I don't think any type of major legislation on the federal level will get passed when he is re-elected. I really wonder why some folks are so worried about that. Since when did anyone start believing Obama and what he says he is and isn't going to do. I sure as hell don't. You can't ever tell with that guy. He certainly isn't swinging a big enough pecker to pass anything so radical.

On a side note, I read another report right under that about Mitt and his bullying days in grade school. Apparently he was a bit of a bully and an "turd-cutter". Why in the hell this matters, I have no idea. Mitt will not be re-elected because it is already starting. The media can make an issue as big or as small as they want- depends on their agenda. They have already amped up the meaningless bs on Romney and will continue to pummel the voting public with story after story. Don't think for one minute the media hasn't been planning a calculated strategy since 2008 to amp up Obama voters, disenfranchise conservative voters and make sure that for a very long time that a republican simple cannot be elected to office.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby Chuckle12 » Sat May 12, 2012 11:24 am

greenheadgrimreaper wrote:I don't think any type of major legislation on the federal level will get passed when he is re-elected. I really wonder why some folks are so worried about that. Since when did anyone start believing Obama and what he says he is and isn't going to do. I sure as hell don't. You can't ever tell with that guy. He certainly isn't swinging a big enough pecker to pass anything so radical.
Thaw what we said when he proposed Obamacare...
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby lilwhitelie » Sat May 12, 2012 11:54 am

Wanna see health care and jobs go to the $#!+%%er???? Wait till he is reelected!!!!! Funny how he nor any of his staff will be taking part in OBAMACARE and he makes no excuses as to why.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby greenheadgrimreaper » Sat May 12, 2012 12:11 pm

Chuckle12 wrote:
greenheadgrimreaper wrote:I don't think any type of major legislation on the federal level will get passed when he is re-elected. I really wonder why some folks are so worried about that. Since when did anyone start believing Obama and what he says he is and isn't going to do. I sure as hell don't. You can't ever tell with that guy. He certainly isn't swinging a big enough pecker to pass anything so radical.
Thaw what we said when he proposed Obamacare...
My point exactly- who the hell can ever tell. He was pretty clear he wanted hc reform. Just not mandatory. I don't think anything will become of it, and if it does it won't pass. One thing we have to remember- and it's scary to think about- more Americans nowadays support gay marriage than those who don't. We are in the minority.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby SNOT » Sat May 12, 2012 12:16 pm

I don't know why everyone is just conceding and handing the election over to Obama....dems were shown the door in 2010, poll numbers look good for Romney, no president has been re-elected with 8% unemployment, etc. The economy is terrible and that's what people care about the most....Obama trying to appeal to fringe groups won't be enough to get everyone's mind off the terrible economy. It will be a close election.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby greenheadgrimreaper » Sat May 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Oh it will be close. There is no such thing as landslides in pres elections anymore. Nobody votes for the better candidate anymore- they vote straight down party lines. Particularly because the politicians have become so polarized in their views that we have no choice. It's all a matter of how much the voting base gets fired up.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby farmerc83 » Sat May 12, 2012 1:00 pm

Barring a huge scandal, most voters know right now, without a shadow of a doubt, who they will vote for come Nov. Obama needs massive funding to win those few that haven't decided and the gay community has money to give.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby SNOT » Sat May 12, 2012 1:05 pm

A gay guy I work with told me he doesn't care if Obama approves of gay marriage, he still hates him and still won't vote for him. I hope more think the way he does.

I guess it all depends on what percentage of the undecided segment are gay/pro-gay and if they would rather see Rick marry Jimmy or see Rick and Jimmy have a job.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby Po Monkey Lounger » Sat May 12, 2012 1:14 pm

An interesting point on health care was that during the last presidential campaign, leading up to the election, Obama was AGAINST any plan that included an individual mandate to purchase health insurance, and McCain was FOR the individual mandate. Later, as President, and after seeing that the type type of government run health care program envisioned by the liberals/progressives would not work without the mandate, he shifted his position (as he has been prone to do on almost everything).

Something interesting about the gay civil rights debate is that when national polls are taken on the issue of same-sex marriage or unions, most of the public says that they are for it. However, when it comes time to enter the voting booth to actually vote on a measure that would legally allow and recognize such unions, a majority of the voters just can't pull the trigger in favor of it (as indicated by the 30 plus states who have enacted measures prohibiting such marriages/unions). I think part of the reason for this discrepancy is that when folks are talking in the abstract, it sounds like something that would be ok. But, when it comes to actually putting it in place, they start thinking about the unintended consequences and unknowns and change their minds. The folks who might consider voting for it, like me, are also concerned about the parameters of it and would want conditions placed upon any such laws to protect the rights of the church. Also playing into this is that the "most likely voters" (often older generations) are just not going to vote for such measures, no matter what, and they are they ones who actually show up to vote in higher percentages. And one other factor I think comes into play. There is an element of the gay community that are angry activists who use offensive "in your face" type of tactics to get their points across. This segment, while likely the minority of the national gay community, are the most vocal and visible, and would likely tend to turn off non-gay voters. I know they piss me off. The people that I know who are openly gay are not like that at all, and don't make their sexual preferences an issue or big deal. And while I can't condone their behavior, I am also not going to judge or shun them either. And it is these folks that I feel bad for and who cause me to think that they deserve some type of rights similar to the same legal rights given to heterosexual married couples (desp[ite the bad behavior of some in that national community).

The fact that over 30 states have enacted measures against gay marriage/unions is the reason why I said that Obama's statement that he is now FOR gay marriage, but thinks the states should have the right to decide, was the classic Obama style fence sitting position to take. His waffling and political nuance have become very predicatable.

Here are just a few examples of some Obama flipflops (some that I am glad he did):

1) He said in the campaign that he would close Gitmo. Gitmo is still open.

2) He said in the campaign that the enemy combatants (eg terrorists) captured and in custody deserved full civil rights of US citizens, including the right to a civilian criminal trial. Yet, the belated upcoming trials of these terrorists are going to occur in a military tribunal at Gitmo.

3) In the campaign, he indicated that waterboarding was "torture" and that we should never "torture" such captured enemy combatants. He was also critical of the other types of enhanced interrogation techniques. And while he may not have exactly flip flopped specifically on this issue, he apparently has no problem just killing them, as opposed to capturing them (eg Osama bin Ladin, and others). And he has not been shy about using the drones for this purpose. Under his policies, capturing them would just create too many headaches. So, just kill them instead. And in the liberal/progressive mind, I suppose that this is ok, as opposed to waterboarding them, or creating discomfort for the purpose of interrogation. Fascinating. Can anyone imagine what the liberal.progressive response would be if these same drone attacks and policies were being carried out by a Republican administration? We would have breathless and hysteria driven daily news reports and opinion columns condemning these actions, as well as daily charts in the newspapers showing body counts, espicially of the "collateral damage".

4) He used to have no problem with high gas prices as candidate Obama, but now the realities of such high gas prices upon his presidency is changing his tune. When the "poor" who he pretends to protect with his policies are paying a heavy price along with the so-called "rich", it doesn't sound as good now in actual practice. Oops. The higher the gas prices go, the lower his ratings.

5) As indicated above, he was against the individual health insurance mandate before he was for it.

6) And he was against gay marriage, before he was for it.

7) I could go on, but you get the point. etc.etc.

The lessons here are that you can't run the country using the same policies that you advocated as a state legislator and state senator from the state of Illinois. Square hole meet round peg. And just being anti-Bush is not a policy from which you can lead the country. You actually have to be "for" something and have guiding principles in order to effectively lead others. And despite the individual, specific arguments against his presidency (and there are many legitimate ones), the biggest failure of him as president, IMO, is his poor leadership. He is simply not a leader. He is the epitome of the "Manchurian Candidate" of the progressives, who discovered him after college and have groomed him to run for president ever since, including ghost writing books for him to attempt to appeal to the usual liberal/progressive special interests, while sanitizing his past for the masses. From their perspective, he was the perfect candidate --- both white and black --- and a religious chameleon, able to change color and blend in with whatever audience he is speaking to at the time. But, he is as empty and shallow as any president that has ever occupied the Oval Office ---- he can't function without his telepromptor and a script. And I seriously doubt the claims of his academic prowess (his grades in college have never been released). He is the classic psuedo-intellectual.

Romney has a good chance to defeat Obama, make no mistake about it. Many of the states that voted Democrat the last election are in play for the Republicans this fall. This will likely be the ugliest presidential campaign in our nation's history. So brace yourselves for a despicable ride. And IF Obama loses, I expect manufactured trouble and turmoil from many special interest groups ----eg new Black Panthers, unions, enviro-whackos, etc. --- including riots and violent civil disobedience. The stage for such is already being assembled.

God help us all.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby SNOT » Sat May 12, 2012 1:58 pm

Po Monkey Lounger wrote:An interesting point on health care was that during the last presidential campaign, leading up to the election, Obama was AGAINST any plan that included an individual mandate to purchase health insurance, and McCain was FOR the individual mandate. Later, as President, and after seeing that the type type of government run health care program envisioned by the liberals/progressives would not work without the mandate, he shifted his position (as he has been prone to do on almost everything).

Something interesting about the gay civil rights debate is that when national polls are taken on the issue of same-sex marriage or unions, most of the public says that they are for it. However, when it comes time to enter the voting booth to actually vote on a measure that would legally allow and recognize such unions, a majority of the voters just can't pull the trigger in favor of it (as indicated by the 30 plus states who have enacted measures prohibiting such marriages/unions). I think part of the reason for this discrepancy is that when folks are talking in the abstract, it sounds like something that would be ok. But, when it comes to actually putting it in place, they start thinking about the unintended consequences and unknowns and change their minds. The folks who might consider voting for it, like me, are also concerned about the parameters of it and would want conditions placed upon any such laws to protect the rights of the church. Also playing into this is that the "most likely voters" (often older generations) are just not going to vote for such measures, no matter what, and they are they ones who actually show up to vote in higher percentages. And one other factor I think comes into play. There is an element of the gay community that are angry activists who use offensive "in your face" type of tactics to get their points across. This segment, while likely the minority of the national gay community, are the most vocal and visible, and would likely tend to turn off non-gay voters. I know they piss me off. The people that I know who are openly gay are not like that at all, and don't make their sexual preferences an issue or big deal. And while I can't condone their behavior, I am also not going to judge or shun them either. And it is these folks that I feel bad for and who cause me to think that they deserve some type of rights similar to the same legal rights given to heterosexual married couples (desp[ite the bad behavior of some in that national community).

The fact that over 30 states have enacted measures against gay marriage/unions is the reason why I said that Obama's statement that he is now FOR gay marriage, but thinks the states should have the right to decide, was the classic Obama style fence sitting position to take. His waffling and political nuance have become very predicatable.

Here are just a few examples of some Obama flipflops (some that I am glad he did):

1) He said in the campaign that he would close Gitmo. Gitmo is still open.

2) He said in the campaign that the enemy combatants (eg terrorists) captured and in custody deserved full civil rights of US citizens, including the right to a civilian criminal trial. Yet, the belated upcoming trials of these terrorists are going to occur in a military tribunal at Gitmo.

3) In the campaign, he indicated that waterboarding was "torture" and that we should never "torture" such captured enemy combatants. He was also critical of the other types of enhanced interrogation techniques. And while he may not have exactly flip flopped specifically on this issue, he apparently has no problem just killing them, as opposed to capturing them (eg Osama bin Ladin, and others). And he has not been shy about using the drones for this purpose. Under his policies, capturing them would just create too many headaches. So, just kill them instead. And in the liberal/progressive mind, I suppose that this is ok, as opposed to waterboarding them, or creating discomfort for the purpose of interrogation. Fascinating. Can anyone imagine what the liberal.progressive response would be if these same drone attacks and policies were being carried out by a Republican administration? We would have breathless and hysteria driven daily news reports and opinion columns condemning these actions, as well as daily charts in the newspapers showing body counts, espicially of the "collateral damage".

4) He used to have no problem with high gas prices as candidate Obama, but now the realities of such high gas prices upon his presidency is changing his tune. When the "poor" who he pretends to protect with his policies are paying a heavy price along with the so-called "rich", it doesn't sound as good now in actual practice. Oops. The higher the gas prices go, the lower his ratings.

5) As indicated above, he was against the individual health insurance mandate before he was for it.

6) And he was against gay marriage, before he was for it.

7) I could go on, but you get the point. etc.etc.

The lessons here are that you can't run the country using the same policies that you advocated as a state legislator and state senator from the state of Illinois. Square hole meet round peg. And just being anti-Bush is not a policy from which you can lead the country. You actually have to be "for" something and have guiding principles in order to effectively lead others. And despite the individual, specific arguments against his presidency (and there are many legitimate ones), the biggest failure of him as president, IMO, is his poor leadership. He is simply not a leader. He is the epitome of the "Manchurian Candidate" of the progressives, who discovered him after college and have groomed him to run for president ever since, including ghost writing books for him to attempt to appeal to the usual liberal/progressive special interests, while sanitizing his past for the masses. From their perspective, he was the perfect candidate --- both white and black --- and a religious chameleon, able to change color and blend in with whatever audience he is speaking to at the time. But, he is as empty and shallow as any president that has ever occupied the Oval Office ---- he can't function without his telepromptor and a script. And I seriously doubt the claims of his academic prowess (his grades in college have never been released). He is the classic psuedo-intellectual.

Romney has a good chance to defeat Obama, make no mistake about it. Many of the states that voted Democrat the last election are in play for the Republicans this fall. This will likely be the ugliest presidential campaign in our nation's history. So brace yourselves for a despicable ride. And IF Obama loses, I expect manufactured trouble and turmoil from many special interest groups ----eg new Black Panthers, unions, enviro-whackos, etc. --- including riots and violent civil disobedience. The stage for such is already being assembled.

God help us all.
VERY good post. Pretty much sums up "our" president.

Between his promise to not raise taxes on the under 250k group and the "mandate", Obamacare is a joke....they just try to sell it however they can.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby lilwhitelie » Sat May 12, 2012 3:17 pm

We know with the gay support he will not win the south but he will win the big electoral votes like california etc. Those hurt big time. For everyones sake I hope Romney can come through. I see gas being dang near free by november.....obama will make sure of that.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby randywallace » Sat May 12, 2012 10:38 pm

JDgator wrote:You just know Biden was given a spanking because of this. They've got him locked in his room with the fisher-price phone and coloring books now.
I doubt it. Biden was a trial balloon. Very common in politics. Get someone down the food chain to float an idea out there and gauge the pulic response. Those guys watch the polling numbers like a farmer watches the weather forcast.
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Re: Obama and Gays

Postby donia » Sun May 13, 2012 7:32 am

JDgator wrote:You just know Biden was given a spanking because of this. They've got him locked in his room with the fisher-price phone and coloring books now.
that, basically, was the opening skit on snl (will ferrel hosted, so there were a few more funny skits than usual).
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