EIC breeding ?

[mark4483]

I know this has probably been discussed on here many times, but I just found out that my BLF is EIC affected. What are yalls thoughts on breeding an affected dog, if you know that the other dog is EIC clear and that there is a 0% chance of having affected pups? I have mixed feelings on this, and I realize that most of the pups will be carriers but I would like to hear some of yalls takes on it. Thanks.

[cdwyer]

Is your dog affected? or a carrier?, big difference between the two regarding breeding. An affected to a clear will produce all carriers.

Unless the dog has some amount of uncanny ability that mated to a proper male would have some benefit to the breed then I would say no. I would not consider a puppy from an affected dam unless she is a National Field Champion bred to a clear equally imppressive male. There are too many fantastic breedings out there with the proper clearances for anybody at any level to get what they want.

Breeding a dog with any of the defects that we have the ability to test for is not morally the right thing to do. As a breeder, we are under the honor system to do the right thing for the betterment of the breed. If you raise only one litter, you are a breeder.

I have a kennel full of carriers one of which is a Grand dog that is QAA. I have had offers to breed to him females that are untested and the owner of the bitch take full responsibility of the litter. That's ridiculous. Theres just too many good sound breedings available.

[Starhill Labs]

You asked for an opinion and that is just what this is. Ultimately up to you, but I would not buy a pup from this litter. If your bitch is affected then as you mentioned, all pups will be carriers which certainly is not improving the breed. If she was mine I would have her spade and then I don't have to worry at all about the temptation when the cycle comes around. I am sorry that she is affected. That is a real shame. Fortunately we now have the means to test for EIC as well as other conditions that we were not able to test for just 5 years ago. Good luck!

[Damn_It_Boy]

Depends on the dog. I don't think it does anything to affect the breed if mating for great characteristics in a proven sire or dam. Having an EIC affected dog myself, I could care less if the dog is a carrier....in fact, I wish I had a carrier. You can't just stop breeding carriers or affected if they are worthy dogs with worthy traits worth passing on. You can continue this line, and eventually breed out the carriers in a few generations. Again, keep in mind that the dog would have to be pretty special for other folks to want the pups. Be careful with this, or you could ending up raising a whole litter....

DO NOT BREED YOUR DOG TO AN UNTESTED DOG, AND I DON'T CARE WHAT THE OWNER SAYS. ONLY BREED TO AN EIC CLEAR TESTED DOG!! IF YOU BREED TO AN UNTESTED DOG, AND IT TURNS OUT TO BE A CARRIER THEN 25% WILL BE AFFECTED WITH EIC.

With all the said, the only way I would breed my affected dog (and no, he's not fixed) is if I had a demand, the bitch was clear, and had presold all the pups before breeding. And no, that's not likely to happen. But, you never can tell.........

A carrier dog is no different from a normal tested dog, other than he is carrying the gene............he doesn't know he's a carrier anymore than he knows he is a brown or black dog. In my opinion, if I'm buying, I'll overlook the carrier issue in a heartbeat if it's a very very nice breeding.

EIC carriers are getting to be rather common, as more and more testing is being done. If all carriers and affected dogs were stopped from breeding, imagine how crappy the breed would be.......let's stop the affected dogs period, and slowly get rid of the carriers with careful and selective breeding.

And Charles.....I don't consider an EIC carrier as being a "defective dog". Not in the least.

[mharville]

Every time this topic comes up you get varying opinions. DIB, you have an EIC affected dog that many of us have seen work and I, as many others, will agree he is a fine animal. Is EIC a gene mutation or defect.? IMO, A carrier is like a car with a defective(recalled) part,there may never be a problem with the car, but there's a chance something could go wrong. I'm not saying i wouldn't own a carrier, but with the testing now I'd want to know and it would have to have some very strong possibilities in our games.

[Damn_It_Boy]

Here is a great link with a question/answer session with Dr. Patterson from the Univ. of Minn. discussing EIC. http://www.dancindogproductions.com/sho ... hp?t=17679

[cdwyer]

And Charles.....I don't consider an EIC carrier as being a "defective dog". Not in the least.

I agree, a carrier is by no means a defective dog, but does have a defect. The carrier status has no impact on what the capability of a dog may be. As an example, May & Trey are carriers, both have extremely nice pedigrees. What I am saying is that I can buy either of those pedigrees seperatly or together in a clear puppy from the start. So why even deal with a litter of puppies that are going to have some carriers in it. If we do breed a litter we should take some responsiblity for these carrier puppies going to people that understand EIC and how to make educated breeding decisions and there is no way this is possible.

That being said I did buy a carrier puppy that is running his first Derby this weekend, he is out of a National Field Champion and an high point all age female that was clear. The pedigree matched so perfectly in what I consider my dream breeding that the carrier status has no bearing on what I hope to achieve from this dog. I didnt buy him to breed and could care less if he is ever bred.

I dont believe my personal dogs have those types of characteristics to go to the trouble of breeding and being resonsible for carrier pups going to homes that wont be as responsible. I just purchased 2 EIC clear/CNM clear female pups from a strong old school FT line that I intend to title at least one out and breed to Trey. I will have the whole litter tested and keep a clear male and female and probably give the carriers away with limited registration and sale the rest of the clears. Possibly donate them to the seeing eye fondation or pets for vets?
A good many of these carrier lines are from field trial breedings, Ive been researching and keeping a log of very talented Hunt Test dogs that are clear and may move away from these strong FT lines in the future. The dogs I am interested in to start would have to be GRHRCH/MH females and GRHRCH/MH males. Chris Aiken's Boomer is a one local that is on the list.

Testing is coming to the forfront, look at you HRC magazine this month compared to a few months ago and see how many dogs are listing EIC status, its more and more each month.

As far as breeding out the qualities of these superdogs that has taken hundreds of years to build is valid, but those same lines are out there in a clear litter from equally proven/titled parents.

Thats just my opinion and how I'm looking at litters in the future. I try and never say "always" and keep an open mind.

[Damn_It_Boy]

Well said.......check you pm's in a second.