No BS Gundog training

[EvanG]

Gundog training:

We hear and read all the time that someone believes most methods of retriever training are only geared toward competition, but not for the real needs of a gundog. While I think most of the differences are perceived, rather than being as dramatic as often portrayed, I’m really interested in anyone and everyone listing how little or how much their ideal gundog needs in terms of training to be field ready?

· Examples might be conventional Basics
· Lining, but perhaps not actual handling
· Minimal handling
· Decoy training
· Gun intro that includes shooting a shotgun over the dog
· Diversion mark training

These are just examples to spur thought. Put a package together that meets your real needs, not just some fictitious example of what you think some other guy would want. If you were to just say, “Okay, here’s all the training a real gundog - my real gundog - needs to make me happy”, what would that really be?

EvanG

[DuckTruck]

In addition to yours.....

- Riding on ATV's and trailers (don't laugh, you would be surprised at the VERY CAPABLE hunting dogs that cannot figure out how to get on, much less stay on an ATV)

- Geese - Retrieving them and being around goose decoys

- Boats- Same as ATV's above

- Multiple dogs- Hunting with other dogs....not just honoring, hunting

[EvanG]

In addition to yours.....

- Riding on ATV's and trailers (don't laugh, you would be surprised at the VERY CAPABLE hunting dogs that cannot figure out how to get on, much less stay on an ATV)

- Geese - Retrieving them and being around goose decoys

- Boats- Same as ATV's above

- Multiple dogs- Hunting with other dogs....not just honoring, hunting

Good points. There really is a lot to think about when targeting training this way, beyond the more bare-bones skill development. Keep in mind, guys & gals, this is about what you want in your gundog, rather than what you think some fictitious "average Joe" would want.

EvanG

[cdwyer]

I cant imagine having a hunting dog that is at least not through swim-by.

Basic obediance
Formal obediance
Force Fetch
T work
Swim-by

[Faithful Retrievers]

If were looking at just the hunting dog basics I think alot have already been mentioned including aclimating a dog to some of the hunting enviroments it will be in. I guess you might could fit force to pile land/water in the areas mentioned but I think its key to any "hunting dog". It easy to get them to handle left/right its getting them out there without a fall thats hard. The last dog I trained we focused alot on this because I have seen in prior cases where lacking momentum to dig back hurts the dogs ability to return with the bird. On several ocassions this season winged birds that glided several hundred yards in the rice were retrieved thanks to our dedication on this element.
Just my 2 cents.

[cdwyer]

Chris Aiken has a nice video that came out this fall.

[DeltaCotton12]

I plan on "hunting" my dog a month before and leading up to opening day. Meaning we'll get up at the crack of dawn, hit the open water in the morning and put dekes out and do the whole 9 yards. I think this will be crucial to her learning. All this said is assming she is where I think she needs to be. But I believe a months work of getting the kinks out will help predicting certain behaviors when the first bird falls.

[bustercat64]

What really helped me out last year was that we had 2 old catfish ponds for dove fields and we forgot or someone put the boards back in one of the ponds. It got about 2 to 3 feet deep and my dogs loved it. I hope it happens again this year.

[SkippyJ]

As Charles said.......

Basic obediance
Formal obediance
Force Fetch
T work
Swim-by


Maybe add in some type of pattern blinds for confidence and to get the dog "moving"......

and then plain ole OJT (hunting)

That being said, people need to take the time on the first SEVERAL hunts a young dog has and concentrate on the DOG. Nothing worse than a young dog going hunting, getting to pick up ducks, it gets REAL good to it, then the breaking on the shot starts, noise, moving around...etc etc etc.....and he STILL gets the duck. If Fido can't act like a white person in the blind/pit/stand while ducks are working, causes more harm than good, then what do you have?????

IMO

If I heard it once I've heard it a 100 times when I used to guide, and people wanted to take their dog, the one with the blaze orange collar on....."He's a good hunting dog, just needs training!!!"

[cjlouder]

The dog also has to be taught to track with the gun. You got to have a dog that constantly watches for birds and is at attention waiting for the shot and the fall if you expect it to mark multiple birds and not need to be handeled on lots of birds.

The dog also needs to be able to scent out birds in thick cover. Especially on a dove hunt. To many birds are lost to dogs who look for them rather then smell/look for 'em.

[T-Bone]

I cant imagine having a hunting dog that is at least not through swim-by.

Basic obediance
Formal obediance
Force Fetch
T work
Swim-by

You and I can but alot of folk outside the dog training and avid duck hunter world dont have an idea of what a trained hunting retriever is capable of. For example I went on a snow goose hunt a few weeks ago with some guys from Texas (big money boyz) I got drawn for the red pit and I went to the guy headed things up ( member of the club that owned the lease) and politely axed him if he didnt mind if I took my dog. His first response was "will she be still" ...I said sure...."well I dont want her to flare any geese"....I said you dont have to worry she wont flare any geese that she is a trained retriever. Another guy heard me and said come with us to our pit she can hunt with us. Most of them have along with the guides have only seen dogs go out and pick up dead birds not knowing what a trained retreiver can do . The first blind we had was a blue that sailed out appox 400 yds and landed in some knee high sage in the edge of the bean field. Daisee picked up the 5 dead geese and then I lined her up for the blind and the guide said "you may want to walk outside the deocy spread to send her..."BACK" ....4-5 whistles(20mph crosswind) later she picked up the goose. One guy said "that was impressive ...I am used to guy messing with his dog for 30 min picking up birds like that".

Like I said some think that if a tied up when released Fido will pick up dead ducks then all is good and that may or may not be good for some. But when they see a trained retriever git' ur did, they want to know where they can get a dog like that!!!

[EvanG]

So, If you were to just say, “Okay, here’s all the training a real gundog - my real gundog - needs to make me happy”, what would that really be? What is your list of "musts"?

EvanG

[gator]

i took my stupid pill today, so i need some clarification....

is this question "what is our thoughts on the ideal hunting dog" OR is it, "what's the bare minimum you'll accept"?

personally, they are vastly different answers.

gator

[EvanG]

Gator,

This is about what you, personally, believe your gundog should have in terms of training and preparation to hunt as you hunt. It is not about specualating what you might think some fictional "Average Joe hunter" might want or not want. If you were to just say, “Okay, here’s all the training a real gundog - my real gundog - needs to make me happy”, what would that really be?

EvanG

[Duck Chaser]

My "must" list is - handle. My exit strategy in a modern program would be after transition. But, I'd focus less on cheating standards in marking. I would spend less time/effort on marking in general. I love to see a dog dig out a tough mark on a hunt, but more times than not, the marks are either cheese or next to impossible, for multiple reasons. So, reliable handling is where its at...

If I heard it once I've heard it a 100 times when I used to guide, and people wanted to take their dog, the one with the blaze orange collar on....."He's a good hunting dog, just needs training!!!"

Skippy, had a fella tell me last week that his dog "would be a goodun, if somebody would work him for a couple weeks" and my favorite.... "how do I put my dog on them hand signals?"