busting out

[wsmith7t7]

i have a 9 month old lab and she makes the retrieves but does so in her own time.. literally she tip toes the retrieves... is the someting i can do in training that will get her to bust out?

[GulfCoast]

Use real ducks! Shoot more flyers!

[Drakeshead]

For some dogs it is just in them, but if she has been through Hold Conditioning, then go to Force Fetch. Hold comes first and there is no pressure during Hold Conditioning.

Force Fectch puts pressure, either by ear or toe at first (most use ear pinch), to pick up said item. Dog learns that the faster they can get said item in their mouth, the faster the pressure is turned off. You will go from ear, to heeling stick, and lastly to the collar. Oh, and dog must be collar conditioned as well.

She may not ever have that super fast pick up like you are looking for as it just may not be in her. Nothing wrong with the dog, she just doesn't have that high drive bred in her.

[Damn_It_Boy]

I really don't think FF will help with the dogs training DESIRE. In fact, it has nothing to do with it and I certainly wouldn't consider it until the desire is somewhat built up first.

Live ducks and fun retrieves may help. Also, some dog's light bulbs don't go off until later........for now, just make it as fun as you can.....

My rookie opinion for what it's worth.

[Drakeshead]

My opinion is as a rookie as well and I do not have a dog at the level of yours so your (DIB) and GC advise is probably better.

[Damn_It_Boy]

My opinion is as a rookie as well and I do not have a dog at the level of yours so your (DIB) and GC advise is probably better.

Drake.......your opinion is valid and important. The force fetch process is extremely important in training, and surely shouldn't be overlooked. Maybe Evan G. will come on explain it how it pertains to desire.

I would be interested in seeing the pedigree on the dog mentioned. Some breedings just don't have it........but even the best of breedings can get a little wacked. I would also wonder if the Sire and Dam were hunting or hunt test dogs????

[LastFrontierLabs]

Sometimes it helps if you crate them while other dogs are working. They see other retrievers picking up bumpers/ducks and they can't join in the fun. Let them watch for a good while, then maybe let them out for one retrieve to see if it has helped... Keep trying. Sometimes it just takes time.
Sometimes the excitement of other dogs will help build that desire.

[goosebruce]

Oh my gosh... dib is right! And he did so wif out being a butthole. Somebody mark this day down! hehehe.

FF is a tool, but if a dog has to be forced to a mark in general yur screwed. Wont say there isnt a time, on certain dogs, in certain situations, where it might have to happen to work thru some issues, but not in general.

Has the dog ALWAYS been this way. Or did it happen after rules where applied? Has the dog been corrected for breaking? Lots of times folks want to steady their dog, but they actually just have a dog that'll sit... then when it goes, they yell or snatch it back, and the dog thinks it was corrected for retreiving... not understanding the concept of breaking. If the dog previously showed good desire, then steadying happened, good chance the dog is confused, and scared. You'd tiptoe too.

Birds is a good answer, but needs to be used in moderation. Reason being is a lot of dogs no ate up with retreiving, will get pumped with birds, but decide then bumpers are even less attractive. So birds are a plus, but use moderation. And if you mix the 2, always bumpers, THEN birds. Don't give a reason for the behavior to happen, and then have to try to correct or pressure thru it. Also, being a cheerleader for the dog for lagging, trying to hurry it up with baby talk and praise, is rewarding the behavior. Save your praise and kind tone for the right behavior.

Letting a wall flower watch other dogs work is a great way to lite a fire. Id stake the dog, or put it in a crate where it can see other dogs, and let it watch every single dog I could come up with. Then throw it one. If my wallflower hauls, it might get another one. Hold the dog, take the pressure off the dog to be still, and let it only think about the bird. If the dog squirms or makr noise or anything while its watching, let it. This is about getting the dog bird booty crazy. Without the drive, you don't have anything. Yelling at the dog to be quiet or still while your trying to build it up, is counterproductive. Ive been known to let it chase another dog, and have my thrower throw another bird to the wall flower when it gets out there... Good luck. travis

[Drakeshead]

DANG!!!! Does this mean that DIB is smarter than me?

[BAY KINGFISHER]

sounds like the dog isnt having any fun, I like the idea of running with another dog, maybe some running water lots of fun, less technical!!! let the dog see how much fun they can have!! my novice opinion!!

[goosebruce]

water is great until once it warms. travis

[wsmith7t7]

guys... plenty of thanks being given here. plenty of things to try. also makes me realize that i am starting to jack up my dog... any way... thanks again...

oh yeah her ped.... 3 dogs in 4 generations.... only 4 titles..... not much there i know

[LastFrontierLabs]

oh yeah her ped.... 3 dogs in 4 generations.... only 4 titles..... not much there i know

I wouldn't be overly concerned about that.... Our 13 year old has 0 titles in 5 gens, but a few FC/AFC dogs in gens 6-8. Not only is she a GREAT retriever, she has NEVER had a health issue in her life...not even an ear infection.
Good luck and let us know how she comes along.

[wsmith7t7]

will keep u informed and i believe if i jack her up the next one will be trained by prof... again thanks..

[Meeka]

What Travis said.

Odds are the dog is a lab and has all the desire and drive it needs. its the other stuff you are doing or have done that created this situation. And Travis knows I know.

About your dog though. U Want proof he/she has the drive? Set up a dream retrieve for a dog, ducks, guns, freedom, whatever will get the dog's rocks off. Use no restraint and see what happens. Probably you'll see the dog burnin worms on way out. That shows you the potential is there. It also shows you that YOU slowed the dog by creating uncertainty or confusion or angst or fear or all of the above.

Good news is its easy to fix, I believe. And with due respect to others, pressure is what may have caused the problem of slow performance on marks, so I'd be cautious about trying to fix the situation with pressure.

JMO, have fun!