Steele Bayou ??

[Wildfowler]

Is the gate open or closed right now? We've had a lot of discussion about the pumps lately, and I don't think I've ever known what the criteria was that forced the gates to close today? Do they ever try to close the gates in the Spring to keep the river out, regardless of the water levels? Or is the gate to remain open at all levels provided that the river is lower than the landside so water can "gravity fall".

Currently the riverside gauge read: 83.79 feet

http://www2.mvr.usace.army.mil/WaterCon ... &fid=&dt=S

The landside reads: 84.16 feet.

http://www2.mvr.usace.army.mil/WaterCon ... &fid=&dt=S

As long as the landside remains higher than the river, do they just leave the gate open letting the whole south delta back up? We're only about 3 feet away from when the pumps would come on. Just curious what's going on over there right now.

[BR549]

Yes, anytime the water is higher on the land side the gates are open no matter what the levels are.

[Wildfowler]

I'm still trying to understand this. Please help me a little more with this.

I don't know exactly how far away the MS river is from the Steele Bayou gate. I don't know much time it would take a change in the MS river at Vicksburg to reach the "riverside" portion of the Steele Bayou. I'm guessing that when the MS river reaches a certain point and above, any change in the reading at Vicksburg results in a directly corresponding change in the reading at the "riverside" portion of the Steele Bayou gate? Probably within only a few hours time. Is this correct?

On Feb 26, the MS river at Vicksburg was at 36.12 feet. At the same time the Steele Bayou reading was 83.79 (Feb27) for the riverside gauge and landside reading was 84.19.

The pumps could have turned on with just a little over three more feet of water. (isn't the magic number 87 feet?) And if there was three more feet of water, the MS river would have only been some 39 feet high at Vicksburg. This isn't even flood stage for the river.

Doesn't the MS at Vicksburg hit or exceed 39 just about every year? Even if the river doesn't hit 39 feet every year. 39 feet is certainly not a once per 100 year event that the pumps are supposed to protect against. Aren't we really talking about pumping out the equivalent of what would happen in the south delta when the MS river goes above 39 feet if the Steele Bayou control structure were not in place? Is 39 feet even that big of a deal? Surely there is no farming being done on lands that would flood at 39 feet. Surely there are no houses that are not elevated on lands that flood at 39 feet. By contrast, wouldn't the pump actually make even more lands for safe for agriculture?

Is this really what we're trying to "protect" against? Maybe I've got it all wrong?

Is the road at Chotard Landing even underwater at 39 feet?

[Dukelane]

I'm betting you know more than anyone on this board about that. I didnt even know the 100 yr. water levels.

[BR549]

The steel Bayou gates are not on the MS River. They are some 8 to 10 miles up the Yazoo River. A lot of water coming down the Yazoo could have more effect than say a 39 or 40 ft MS river stage. The pumps were to be set to come on at 87 only if the water on the river side of the structure was higher than the land side. Otherwise the gates would remain open and let the water "gravity" out to the river. You may not think 87 feet is much but try telling that to the man that has all that wheat down there that's just about to go under water right now. Especially after he has already put fertilizer on it! 87 feet not only covers a lot of farmland but at that level it really slows down the drainage of higher elevations. If the water was at 87 landside, with the gates closed, and we were to get a 2 or 3" rain like last night. It would probabaly cover anything below 90 to 91 ft before it could all shake out. I spec there was some wheat lost by this morning down there. Not saying it's a cure all but anything would be a help. Crops can't stand water to sit on them more than 24 hrs without devastating them. I haven't been down that way today but the cutoff canal Moday before the rain was bank full. Another 1-2 ft would have put it in a lot of fields!

[BR549]

Steele Bayou this morning was just under 80.8 landside and 80.4 riverside. Not much flow going out. By tomorrow I bet you will see a big difference in both sides after all that rain last night!

[mudsucker]

Grow rice in the sump!

[Wildfowler]

You may not think 87 feet is much but try telling that to the man that has all that wheat down there that's just about to go under water right now. Especially after he has already put fertilizer on it! 87 feet not only covers a lot of farmland but at that level it really slows down the drainage of higher elevations.

I guess I should start out each post with my motto of not wishing any damage or destruction upon any landowner. I'm just trying to understand this, and am compelled to ask questions that may sound insensitive to some. It is not my intent to be insensitive to landowners.

The USACE doesn't give a flood stage level for the Yazoo at the structure. I'm trying to view this from what might be the next best perspective, which I believe may be the level of the MS river to help me understand what's going on in the region. Let's assume for a moment there was no rainfall to factor in the short-term. And lets assume for a moment that the structure was not in place. And let assume that the MS goes up to 38 feet and remains there for an extended period of time and does not fluctuate. Eventually, the Yazoo would back up to the point where it was as high as the MS and couldn't back up any more. Then there would be a specific area of land that's become inundated to some measurable level. By my estimation, this area of land roughly corresponds to how much land would be inundated by the 87 foot level measured at Steele Bayou. It sounds to like the pumps are intended to prevent what would happen every time the area would otherwise (pre-yazoo project) become inundated by the equivalent amount of water present when the MS river goes above 38 feet rather than protecting against a major once in a 100 year flood event.

You said that 87 feet covers a lot of farmland. Was there always farming around the 87-90 foot area, or did farming move in after the Yazoo project began? Is this the promise that I've read about here? Do the gates close every time the river side goes higher than the landside? Even if the both readings are low, like 50 or 60 feet. There are occasions when this has happened. Not that it ever posed a flooding threat, I'm just curious.

Thanks.

[Gelly]

$#!+!!

[Gelly]

LMAO

[SoftCall]

LMAO

about what??

[BR549]

First of all on a "flat" river as you speak of 38 ft on Vicksburg guage would not be 87 ft sea level. It's more like 43 ft. Maybe that will put a little more perspective on it. When they close the seawall at Vicksburg port it's about 89 to 90! And yes anytime the water is higher on the river side the gates are normally closed. There may be a time when they want to let some water in. This has been done several times to either fill or flush Eagle Lake. But for the most part they stay closed.

[Wildfowler]

First of all on a "flat" river as you speak of 38 ft on Vicksburg guage would not be 87 ft sea level. It's more like 43 ft. Maybe that will put a little more perspective on it. When they close the seawall at Vicksburg port it's about 89 to 90! And yes anytime the water is higher on the river side the gates are normally closed. There may be a time when they want to let some water in. This has been done several times to either fill or flush Eagle Lake. But for the most part they stay closed.

I'm not sure I'm following you? Are you saying that when the Vicksburg reads 43 feet that's really the equivalent to there being 87 feet of water lapping at the Steele Bayou gate which should put the area in the perspective of "flood stage"? This is not what I "found" to be true based on limited data I have looked at.

Look, I'm not a scientist, I could be forgoing large amount of information needed to evaluate this properly. I'm just trying to explain where I am in my current understanding of this. I wish to be corrected, so that I may fully understand this.

I arrived at my numbers when I did a comparison from all the historical data on the rivergages.com website for both the Vicksburg gauge and the riverside gauge. I found that historically, when the riverside reads 87 feet, MS at Vicksburg reads somewhere in the 37-39 foot range. Barring any huge rain event, the riverside water is mostly controlled by the MS river. Isn't it? I realize that the riverside reading is currently independent of the landside reading, but if the structure were not in place, the riverside reading would be the level for the region. Wouldn't it?

I don't happen to know anything about the seawall in Vicksburg. Is this part of the Yazoo drainage project also? When it gets closed, does it cause the Yazoo to back up toward the Steele Bayou? The river gauges that I have studied do not indicate anything about the status of the seawall.

[Wildfowler]

LMAO

Whatschew laughing at?

[SoftCall]

LMAO

Whatschew laughing at?

probably laughing at the fact that you are so thorough in your investigation of this matter....similar to the morning when we were calculating the water displacement of a 15 ft boat with a hewlett packard 10B calculator on the way to the brake one morning many years ago