Inexperience

[Damn_It_Boy]

I was not aware that Wildrose is using e-collars. This must be new??? Or, possibly you made it up? Show me please, as I am a bit hard headed.

I'm not anti-collar, I use one.

[pstone]

Delena, Check your PM's.

[DavidR]

Wildrose uses e-collars on a very limited basis and not as part of a pressure type of training regime. I train my dogs at Wildrose on a very regular basis. (daily)

The e-collar is used to reinforce sit to the whistle if they have a dog that is a runner, or refuses to sit to the whistle. They use e-collars on very few dogs. It is possible to train without one.

[huntergirlhotty]

The collar is a correction tool - not a teaching tool. My first seminar, I followed someone giving a talk on teaching a dog to sit, come, ect by usuing a collar to teach it. My opinion if you can t get a dog to sit or come and basic obedience without a collar - your freakin in trouble. I like to teach dogs and I guess the dogs I teach - or my atypical teaching methods dont result in much correction needed
The only thing I really use the collar for and find a real need for it is for sitting on the whistle.......getting that quick and consistent response...... and then maybe advanced water work ........ NOT SWIMBY ........but advanced advanced water work.........

Sherry - force fetching is Primarily about the Dogs delivery
Secondarily Force fetching is also a process that establishes To the DOG and MAKES it clear to the dog your control over the dog and teaches the dog to turn off pressure ..........which is a big help in advanced retriever training ........it is not about the RETRIEVE and it is nothing about FEATHERS or getting the dog to be birdy or interested in birds. Which in my opinion, you can force fetch a dog, but if he doesn't like birds it is not going to be a pretty retrieve and your starting a whole battle from starting backwards and it will be a long long long ordeal.

[pstone]

I think what she meant about the properly force fetched dog is that if they are properly FF they will fetch ANYTHING you tell them too, even if they don't want to. I see what you are saying, about it not being pretty though..

[huntergirlhotty]

Let me be clearer ........sorry for the mix up - we were talking about force fetching and the relevance of breaking feathershyness prior to force fetching .........

2 year old dog - never seen birds before - you wave old dead mallard .....dog not interested ........ what is the next step??????

force fetching ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
why would you force fetch at this point. You don't know if the dog has a nose or any natural hunting drive , let alone desire .........

So what you force fetch the dog and he will pick up a pencil or your bacardi and coke as it floats away from you as your floating a river - that actually was a benefit for me !!! or a duck. woooppiiiiiiiieeeeeeeee !! Now you got a dog with his tail tucked who will hold a bird to you. NO style......still don't know if the dog has any drive or desire and you haven't taught the dog to use his nose........all that seems more important to me that picking up a bird just cause you said so and you've spent three gruelling weeks teaching this dog that looks like crap and he still doesn't understand why you put him through all this. Your suppose to be clueing the dog in to why your doing the crazy stuff you are to him. Wouldn't be easier to wave some live birds in front of his face and let him get birdy and let him naturally pick the bird up with his mouth......heck, he might automatically come and hand you the bird and.......learn to alway deliver it to hand.......without forcing for three weeks, I have seen it happen. My point is Force Fetching is about delivery.......not about Birds or retrieving........ and force fetching a dog to hold a bird before you break the dog of feathershyness and see the dogs natural drive, desire and ability is WAY PREMATURE ......and out of line and is getting the buggy before the cart ....the cart before the horse ???

[Damn_It_Boy]

I wonder how many FC-AFC dogs were never force fetched.

I wonder how many FC-AFC dogs were never CC'd.

Now take that up a notch........NFC_AFC...........

I'm talkin' about in the last 10-15 years.

[Bayou Beagle]

I wonder how many FC-AFC dogs were never force fetched.

I wonder how many FC-AFC dogs were never CC'd.

Now take that up a notch........NFC_AFC...........

I'm talkin' about in the last 10-15 years.

Sound like you got some researching to do!!!!

[Damn_It_Boy]

I wonder how many FC-AFC dogs were never force fetched.

I wonder how many FC-AFC dogs were never CC'd.

Now take that up a notch........NFC_AFC...........

I'm talkin' about in the last 10-15 years.

Sound like you got some researching to do!!!!

Naw........the answer is probably not many, or very few, if any. Now I'm talking about the last 10-15 years. I Wildrose does indeed have any dogs that are of that caliber, I would bet ya 10-1 they have been through both FF, and more importantly CC'd properly.

Again, it depends on what you intend to do with your dog.............there are plenty of very good meat dogs out there who have never been FF'd, or gone through CC.

[huntergirlhotty]

dont misinterpret my message :

I believe dogs should be force fetched - all of them !!
I just dont think its the first step........in any dogs training

[Damn_It_Boy]

dont misinterpret my message :

I believe dogs should be force fetched - all of them !!
I just dont think its the first step........in any dogs training

My comments weren't directed at you..........