Delta has been conducting studies on nesting success before and after trapping to remove predators for 8 years now. I believe they have over 35,000 acres under management in different areas.
The success rates doubled in each of the test areas across the board.
They have heard not one peep of trouble from Peta and the likes, and not one peep of trouble from the public for their trapping program..
The only trouble they have gotten, and even in the form of articles in the magazine, is Ducks Unlimited.
DU. who also happens to be the most important ally in this endeavor where the birds are concerned, just happens to be their worst nemisis.
In fact their only nemisis.
That's in the face of a 100% increase in nesting success, for an 8 year duration.
Duck Nemisis
You want to trap all the predators? Fine, good luck. Predator populations, like everything else on the nesting grounds, are cyclical. Foxes will always eat lots of ducks. Skunks and racoons will continue to eat lots of ducks. If somebody honestly thinks that they can trap and kill every duck predator on enough land to significantly add to the duck population, knock yourselves out.
Habitat is the key. Why is this so hard to understand? Foxes and skunks have been around forever. So have ducks. They've managed to co-exist to this point. So why are waterfowl numbers down from the millions upon millions that used to literally darken the skies? Seriously, have you ever heard ANYBODY suggest that the general long-term decline in duck populations is due to predators? Hell no!! It's because THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLACES TO NEST TO SUSTAIN A POPULATION LIKE THEY USED TO!! So go and trap all predators you want. Meanwhile, we'll just pretend that habitat isn't THE deciding factor in duck numbers. More wetlands will be lost and the ones that remain will not have any sort of desirability for a duck. Programs that put habitat on the ground and protect native grasslands are by far the most important initiatives on the breeding grounds today.
mottlet
Habitat is the key. Why is this so hard to understand? Foxes and skunks have been around forever. So have ducks. They've managed to co-exist to this point. So why are waterfowl numbers down from the millions upon millions that used to literally darken the skies? Seriously, have you ever heard ANYBODY suggest that the general long-term decline in duck populations is due to predators? Hell no!! It's because THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLACES TO NEST TO SUSTAIN A POPULATION LIKE THEY USED TO!! So go and trap all predators you want. Meanwhile, we'll just pretend that habitat isn't THE deciding factor in duck numbers. More wetlands will be lost and the ones that remain will not have any sort of desirability for a duck. Programs that put habitat on the ground and protect native grasslands are by far the most important initiatives on the breeding grounds today.
mottlet
if you want more wetlands and "natural" land then get the Army Corp of Engineers to take down the levees on the Mississippi and let it go. Bet no body wants to do that.............
the LA marshes are disappearing very rapidly because the river has been channelized and diverted. Can't flood and build back up with silt. Saltwater intrusion is killing the vegitation and the land is simply slipping under the sea.
Todays solution is tomorrows problem. Personal wealth and growth are always the focus but they are always the demise too.
the LA marshes are disappearing very rapidly because the river has been channelized and diverted. Can't flood and build back up with silt. Saltwater intrusion is killing the vegitation and the land is simply slipping under the sea.
Todays solution is tomorrows problem. Personal wealth and growth are always the focus but they are always the demise too.
Trapping is proven to improve the hatch on existing wetlands by 100%.
Would coughing up 2 million for skunk and raccon bounties help the cause?
Yes I think it would. Arkansas and La both contribute from their duck stamp revenue to this end, while Miss money goes to DU.
I would like to join our neighbors in this regard.
I dont see the population downs that you say are happening now.
When are you referring to? We have more duck today than any time in the existence of DU, save a few very recent years. Of course we need habitat, and we need to protect it, but we also need to steward what is there more efficiently. A 100% increase in brood numbers would do quite a lot to black the skies as you say, and 75% of north americas ducks come from the pothole region and a small area to it's north in Canada. If you think that cannot be trapped successfully, then you need to read what a handful of men did to the beaver in the 1800's, and animal much harder to trap than coons, skunks, or fox. They ran them to almost extinction in a span of 20 years across the entire country, not just a tiny area of it, and they did it on foot and horse back.
This program also supports our fellow sportsmen the trapper, something most duck hunters neither respect nor appreciate. The brazen frontier was not opened up by any bunch of duck hunters.
If it produces a 100% increase in brood, moving the numbers to sustainable from the current 8% to 16 %, then I say we should support it whole heartedly. It doesnt make any difference if you have half the continent in wetlands if the predators who live upon it are keeping brood success at 8%, that isnt enough to sustain the populations.
I think the last thing DU needs to be doing is being derrogative about such an effort, especially when 8 years of studies have proven it to work.
What they need to do is financially back it and put some teeth in the jaws of predator management.
Would coughing up 2 million for skunk and raccon bounties help the cause?
Yes I think it would. Arkansas and La both contribute from their duck stamp revenue to this end, while Miss money goes to DU.
I would like to join our neighbors in this regard.
I dont see the population downs that you say are happening now.
When are you referring to? We have more duck today than any time in the existence of DU, save a few very recent years. Of course we need habitat, and we need to protect it, but we also need to steward what is there more efficiently. A 100% increase in brood numbers would do quite a lot to black the skies as you say, and 75% of north americas ducks come from the pothole region and a small area to it's north in Canada. If you think that cannot be trapped successfully, then you need to read what a handful of men did to the beaver in the 1800's, and animal much harder to trap than coons, skunks, or fox. They ran them to almost extinction in a span of 20 years across the entire country, not just a tiny area of it, and they did it on foot and horse back.
This program also supports our fellow sportsmen the trapper, something most duck hunters neither respect nor appreciate. The brazen frontier was not opened up by any bunch of duck hunters.
If it produces a 100% increase in brood, moving the numbers to sustainable from the current 8% to 16 %, then I say we should support it whole heartedly. It doesnt make any difference if you have half the continent in wetlands if the predators who live upon it are keeping brood success at 8%, that isnt enough to sustain the populations.
I think the last thing DU needs to be doing is being derrogative about such an effort, especially when 8 years of studies have proven it to work.
What they need to do is financially back it and put some teeth in the jaws of predator management.
Also FYI the current populations of coon, skunk, and fox in the pothole region is not a normal event, it is man made.
Fossil records show that larger predators dominated this landscape for eons and kept the smaller egg eaters in check. Almost no coons or skunks lived in these regions until we killed all the big predators. Once removed by man, the smaller animals could flourish, putting tremendous pressure on duck broods.
So trapping these animals only serves to correct an ecological inbalance that we started in the first place, by replacing the predators that once kept them in check.
Fossil records show that larger predators dominated this landscape for eons and kept the smaller egg eaters in check. Almost no coons or skunks lived in these regions until we killed all the big predators. Once removed by man, the smaller animals could flourish, putting tremendous pressure on duck broods.
So trapping these animals only serves to correct an ecological inbalance that we started in the first place, by replacing the predators that once kept them in check.
Ain't no doubt that with our great intelligence we sure can screw some stuff up. Like I said before when mother nature has had enough, we're gone. Only so much space and time one man can occupy at one tme but he wants it all all the time........ 
I'm no tree hugger by any means but we sure don't do nature any favors that's for sure. It's got to be profitable before anyone takes notice. That's natural though I guess. We are programed to expand and expand we do. This is the basis of all the problems. I'm not saying we are big enough to destroy the world, it will correct itself, but we are big enough to destroy ourselves and we will at the current rate......along with a few other inhabitants of the planet. But no worries it will heal itself when it eliminates the problem.
As for the ducks and preditors, what about coyotes? They have made massive migrations north and east over the last few decades. What effect do yall think they have on other wildlife populations. They are adaptable, eating garbage to bird eggs.
I'm no tree hugger by any means but we sure don't do nature any favors that's for sure. It's got to be profitable before anyone takes notice. That's natural though I guess. We are programed to expand and expand we do. This is the basis of all the problems. I'm not saying we are big enough to destroy the world, it will correct itself, but we are big enough to destroy ourselves and we will at the current rate......along with a few other inhabitants of the planet. But no worries it will heal itself when it eliminates the problem.
As for the ducks and preditors, what about coyotes? They have made massive migrations north and east over the last few decades. What effect do yall think they have on other wildlife populations. They are adaptable, eating garbage to bird eggs.
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webbmaster
- Duck South Addict
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If somebody honestly thinks that they can trap and kill every duck predator on enough land to significantly add to the duck population, knock yourselves out.
I don't think anyone is attempting to trap every predator. They are just trying to do what part they can.
At least you know what you are getting with DW. I can't say the same for DU.
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sportsman450
- Duck South Addict
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- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:03 pm
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JimWalker wrote:Also FYI the current populations of coon, skunk, and fox in the pothole region is not a normal event, it is man made.
Fossil records show that larger predators dominated this landscape for eons and kept the smaller egg eaters in check. Almost no coons or skunks lived in these regions until we killed all the big predators. Once removed by man, the smaller animals could flourish, putting tremendous pressure on duck broods.
So trapping these animals only serves to correct an ecological inbalance that we started in the first place, by replacing the predators that once kept them in check.
Careful JW-These DU guys can't stand FACTS that go towards lifting the fog their national headquarters has tried so hard to create!
Ignorance is bliss!!!
sportsman
"That's Just My Opinion,I Could Be Wrong" - Dennis Miller
"That's Just My Opinion,I Could Be Wrong" - Dennis Miller
Here is a fact that the advocates for more land and no predator management should pay real attention to.
The pothole region studies consistently showed that success rates of broods in high predator areas was around 8 %.
The primary cause of the failure is predation.
It takes 16% success to maintain the population levels, which means we are loosing the fight on what ground we do have control of.
A trapping program/study that is 8 years old has produced a 16% success rate, effectively doubling the brood counts and bringing them to maintainable levels. These studies have been conducted on 36,000 acres in several areas and spread out across the region.
With hard data to back it up, 8 years of it in fact, Delta has proven that they can produce susatining brood counts by managing predators, and the only voice in the world that currently opposes them doing so is Ducks Unlimited.
And that is going to take some real explaining for me to swallow it.
The pothole region studies consistently showed that success rates of broods in high predator areas was around 8 %.
The primary cause of the failure is predation.
It takes 16% success to maintain the population levels, which means we are loosing the fight on what ground we do have control of.
A trapping program/study that is 8 years old has produced a 16% success rate, effectively doubling the brood counts and bringing them to maintainable levels. These studies have been conducted on 36,000 acres in several areas and spread out across the region.
With hard data to back it up, 8 years of it in fact, Delta has proven that they can produce susatining brood counts by managing predators, and the only voice in the world that currently opposes them doing so is Ducks Unlimited.
And that is going to take some real explaining for me to swallow it.
We're seeing the highest numbers of waterfowl now since DU has been in existence??? C'mon, numbers now aren't even what they were in the mid-90's. Now, that's primarily because of the drought cycle. And yes, the 80's were some lean years. But the 70's? Lot of folks I know that were hunting back then say that the 1970's were the heyday of duck hunting in the Delta. Can't say that I was simply because I wasn't around back then. But I can read. Duck numbers today aren't near what they used to be, and when I say used to be, I don't mean the last ten years.
DU has been around since 1937. Are really going to sit there and with a straight face and post up here for everybody to see that there are more ducks now than there have been since 1937? Either you haven't been duck hunting very long at all or you just haven't taken the time to look at population trends. The reason duck numbers have declined is because of habitat loss, plain and simple.
If Delta Waterfowl really wants to trap predators, fine. Do it. What I don't understand is why everyone feels obligated to bash DU for their decision to focus on habitat conservation instead of predator control. How come nobody gets on DW's case for not making habitat conservation their priority? Probably because DU is the standard by which other private conservation organizations are measured. They're the biggest and the richest. Whether you want to believe it or not, they have the largest impact on raising waterfowl populations, outside of the federal government. Now, I'm leaving to go hunting and curse DU for all the ducks I don't kill.
mottlet
DU has been around since 1937. Are really going to sit there and with a straight face and post up here for everybody to see that there are more ducks now than there have been since 1937? Either you haven't been duck hunting very long at all or you just haven't taken the time to look at population trends. The reason duck numbers have declined is because of habitat loss, plain and simple.
If Delta Waterfowl really wants to trap predators, fine. Do it. What I don't understand is why everyone feels obligated to bash DU for their decision to focus on habitat conservation instead of predator control. How come nobody gets on DW's case for not making habitat conservation their priority? Probably because DU is the standard by which other private conservation organizations are measured. They're the biggest and the richest. Whether you want to believe it or not, they have the largest impact on raising waterfowl populations, outside of the federal government. Now, I'm leaving to go hunting and curse DU for all the ducks I don't kill.
mottlet
mottlet wrote: What I don't understand is why everyone feels obligated to bash DU for their decision to focus on habitat conservation instead of predator control.
No one is bashing DU simply because of their focus on habitat conservation. They bash DU for the manner in which they do it. All duck hunters are for habitat conservation, but I believe most of us want some habitat that WE can hunt. Most of the habitat that DU has improved has been on refuges and PRIVATE LAND. For the average Mr. John Q. Hunter, this means land is improved that is unhuntable. I fully agree with improving refuge habitat for ducks to rest on. However, I don't know of one public hunting area that DU has improved. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, I would just like to know about them. I know all about them improving Mr. Rich Out His booty Hunter's land, but no areas I hunt have been improved. This results in increased HUNTABLE duck numbers for a small percentage of duck hunters.
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Ducks be us
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Have a nice day 
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Chad Manlove
- Veteran
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- Location: Madison, MS
Public Land Areas in Mississippi that DU has helped to restore.....these areas also offer public duck hunting opportunities.
Panther Swamp NWR
Delta National Forest
Mahannah WMA
Hillside NWR
Morgan Brake NWR
Mathews Brake NWR
O'Keefe WMA
Dahomey NWR
Askew Bottoms
Trimcane WMA
Tuscumbia WMA
Noxubee NWR
St. Catherine's Creek NWR
Yes, DU, along with its partners, have restored many wetlands on Public Lands. These projects benefit the ducks and provide additional hunting opportunities for the public.
If you would like to know any specific information related to one of these projects, feel free to contact me. I'd be glad to provide you with any additional information related to these projects.
10% of the money raised in Mississippi, stays in Mississippi to restore waterfowl habitat on public lands.
DU has worked on private land as well. Most of our work on private land has involved installation of water control structures in agricultural fields (i.e., rice and soybean fields). We are willing to work with anyone that wants to improve their land for waterfowl. We're talking about a $500 water control structure, NOT thousands of dollars. Once a field has been enhanced, the LANDOWNER decides if he wants to hunt or not. Some of these fields are leased to many on this forum.
Panther Swamp NWR
Delta National Forest
Mahannah WMA
Hillside NWR
Morgan Brake NWR
Mathews Brake NWR
O'Keefe WMA
Dahomey NWR
Askew Bottoms
Trimcane WMA
Tuscumbia WMA
Noxubee NWR
St. Catherine's Creek NWR
Yes, DU, along with its partners, have restored many wetlands on Public Lands. These projects benefit the ducks and provide additional hunting opportunities for the public.
If you would like to know any specific information related to one of these projects, feel free to contact me. I'd be glad to provide you with any additional information related to these projects.
10% of the money raised in Mississippi, stays in Mississippi to restore waterfowl habitat on public lands.
DU has worked on private land as well. Most of our work on private land has involved installation of water control structures in agricultural fields (i.e., rice and soybean fields). We are willing to work with anyone that wants to improve their land for waterfowl. We're talking about a $500 water control structure, NOT thousands of dollars. Once a field has been enhanced, the LANDOWNER decides if he wants to hunt or not. Some of these fields are leased to many on this forum.
Chad Manlove
Waterfowl Biologist
Ducks Unlimited, Inc.
Waterfowl Biologist
Ducks Unlimited, Inc.
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