I need a history lesson on the Middle East

[Hunter007]

Why does Bin Laden & gang hate us so much? From the little I know, I think it is because we support Israel. If this is true, then why don't they go after Israel & leave us out of it? Also, why do they feel like Israel is intruding on the middle east? This might be too complex to explain but I'd like to become a little more educated.

[tunica]

Hmm they aint liked Christians since almost the beginning of recored time. They know if they directly attack Isreal, Isreal will defend themselves regardless of what the world thinks. There are many more issues than just this. One big one is how Arabs view Honor. its better to rape his wife or camel than insult him about his stinky underarms. He may forgive the rape but By tradition he cannot forgive losing face by the insult.


Guess I may be Arab too. j/k

[salty]

I think some are still stuck in “the crusades” frame of mind. “Kill an infidel and be reworded in heaven.” Rent “Kingdom of Heaven” and watch the movie for entertainment and the history versus Hollywood type stuff on the accompanying DVD for a few facts. Some of the parallels between then and now are interesting. Some muslims think only they belong there and Christians do not. I'm just shooting from the hip about this by the way.

[quackwacker]

I think that it is because they see us as trying to take over the world and expose every nation to democracy.
Everyone will have their own opinion but that is my 2cents

[Squealer]

Imagine this....Your family has lived on the same land for generations. This your home, your family has paid for it over the years, and you enjoy living on it. All of a sudden, a group hi-rollin Cajuns come in and try to homestead on your land claiming that they have a right to this land because it was promised to them in the Bible. They pay you nothing for this land but they have enough money to defend themselves well enough that you can't run them off and they build a big enough army that they begin telling you how to live and where you can and can't live on your own land. This is what Israel did in 1949. And they bankrolled it on the profits they made in the good old USA. Regardless of where you sit on this issue, the USA provided these hard working people a place to profit so that they could "obtain" their promised land by any means possible. As they rose through the corporate ladders, they became very influential in and with our government and close ties were made. This relationship with Israel that grew over the years and continues to grow today resulted in Israel taking over the promised land and is one MAJOR reason we are hated so much. Sorry to ramble and no offense to anyone, just trying to state the facts as closely as possible.

[Wingman]

Start with the book of Exodous and then pretty much the whole Old Testament.

Abram (name later changed to Abraham) lived in Canaan. Abraham's wife, Sarai (later changed to Sarah) couldn't have kids. Ishmael was the son of Abraham and his Egyptian servant woman, Hagar. Now when Hagar became pregnant, she and Sarai did not jive at all. Hagar ran away, but God came to her and said to her about Ishmael "He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." Abraham had another son by his wife, Sarah, called Isaac. Isaac's two sons were Esau and Jacob. Jacob had 12 sons. One of his sons was sold into slavery by 10 of the others. Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites who took him to Egypt as a slave.

Okay, so Joseph became pretty much the governor of Egypt. The king let Joseph be in charge of all of the grain bins, so to speak. Joseph saved up enough grain for the coming 7 years of terrible famine. During that famine, people from other countries would come to Egypt to buy grain. In the process, Joseph's other brothers ended up coming to buy grain and reunited with Joseph. The story goes on, but a couple hundred years pass and millions of descendants of Jacob (whom God renamed Israel) are in Egypt as slaves. So here you have the history of the hostilities between Israel and Egypt starting back with Isaac and Ishmael.

You've probably heard the rest about the plagues and finally the Passover where the death angel killed all of the first born in Egypt unless you had lamb's blood smeared on your door post. As a result Pharoah let the Israelites leave but then pursued them where the Egyptian army was killed in the Red Sea after God parted it to let the Israelites walk through.

The Israelites wandered in the Desert (Sinai Peninsula) for 40 years on what was to take 21 days to get to "The Promised Land" of Canaan. God told them several times to go in and take Canaan but they doubted and so they wandered until the generation that came out of Egypt was dead. Anyway, they finally crossed the Jordan River and took Canaan through wars and battles.

Throughout thousands of years, the Israelites (composed of 12 tribes, each named for one of the sons of Jacob) occupied the region where Israel is currently located. They were invaded by ancient armies (Egyptians, Syrians, Babylonians-present day Iraq, and others) and were taken into captivity but then later were released and rebuilt their country. They would conquer the surrounding nations and then be conquered themselves. This process happened over and over again as you can find in the Old Testament. During the time that Jesus was on the Earth, Israel was under Roman occupation. It is interesting to know that the Gaza Strip is where ancient Philistia was located (you remember the story about Goliath the giant Philistine?). The Assyrian Empire occupied all of present day Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Egypt and Israel in 700 BC. The Babylonian Empire occupied all of that plus some of Saudi Arabia in 600 BC. The ancient city of Bablyon was located on the Euphrates River right about where Baghdad is. Each time the Israelites were conquered by the Babylonians and Assyrians, they were brought as slaves into present day Iraq and Iran. Here you see where the ancient hatred between Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, etc. was hatched.

Anyway, so Israel was formed into a country again in 1947, I think. Ever since, all of the surrounding Arab nations have vowed not to recognize Israel as a legit nation and have an oath to wipe it off the face of the Earth. Of course, anyone who sides with Israel is also considered an "infidel" to the Muslim religion and must also be killed according to Islamic religous belief. Jiihad means "holy war" and it has been going on ever since the Israelites crossed the Jordan into Canaan and took it for their own land.

The last and final "hoorah" according to Revelation, is when Israel is about to be blown to smithereens by surrounding nations and the Lord will return and defeat them all.

I saw in an article a couple of days ago where they were talking about the Israeli soldier that had been taken captive in the Gaza Strip. The captors had said that they would possibly come to terms with the "Zionists" under certain conditions. They didn't call them Israelis, but Zionists. Zion is the city of God. It was originally a fortified city occupied by the Jebusites but captured by King David (Jerusalem). They lump us all into the "infidel" category unless you are a Muslim.

So, the country of Israel was given to those people by God way back when. The Arabs have never been happy with it and never will. Unless you believe the Bible, not much of the fighting makes sense. Not that any fighting makes sense, but the Bible gives a complete historical background of the matter.

[jtdumallard]

great history lesson wingman. well said

[Josey Wales]

According to him (Bin Laden) he hates us because we have American troops in the land of Allah (Saudi Arabi)..they also hate us because we support the Jews as well..

Nice Merriam in your avatar..where did you harvest it?

[Wingman]

Another note:

Israel is not considered a "Christian" nation, because the Jewish faith does not believe that Jesus is God and came to the earth as a man. The Jews believe Jesus was just a prophet as was Moses, Abraham, etc. However, the Jews and Christians are considered infidels to Muslims because of their belief in God, not Allah.

It gets deep rather quickly, but that is the basis for the Arab hatred toward anyone sharing the Judeo-Christian religious belief. That is the reason for the religous onslaught from Muslim extremists against Christian missionaries and Christian nations across the globe. For someone to say they believe in Islam but do not believe in jiihad is not accurate. The Islamic religion believes that all who are not Muslims are to be killed. Islam is not a religion of peace, as some would have you to believe. Nor is everyone who claims they are "christian" a representative of what Christianity stands for.

So, the next time a Muslim tells you that they believe in peace for all, ask them about jiihad.

The Crusades were a farce. They were merely a scam used by religous zealots to capture material goods for their own gain. For so called Christians to kill people in the name of the Lord because they won't "convert" is neither Biblical or Christian and you will find nowhere in the New Testament where Jesus instructs believers to do this.

Wow! So let's talk about ducks.

[lower14]

That’s fine and dandy, Wingman, but you omitted all of the crucial information. The most important item being that Islam didn’t exist until 622 AD, or about 530 years after the last book of the Bible was written. Let’s escape from Sunday School and get to some hard facts, starting right around the time of Christ…

Pompey the Great conquered Judea in 63 BC, taking advantage of a power struggle caused by civil war. The Romans ruled Judea in the manner typical of their style – keeping most local religions and customs in place. In the time immediately after Jesus’ crucifixion, there was great civil unrest, which caused the Romans to send an occupying force to the area, culminating in the conquest of Jerusalem and destruction of Solomon’s Temple in 70 AD. Rebellions came and went for another 60 years, up until about 130AD, when the Bar Kochba rebellion failed and the area was renamed Palestine and occupied by Roman legions.

The area remained in Roman hands until the empire started to crumble. After Rome fell to Attilla, the Byzantine Empress Eudocia allowed the Jews to return to Judea (they had been prohibited from living there for 300 years). In 614, the Persians conquered Palestine.

Now, in 622, Mohammed founded Islam, and ascended into Heaven on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem (which is why Jerusalem is sacred to Muslims). In 628, the Byzantines (the old Eastern Roman Empire) re-conquered Palestine. Outraged, the newly formed Muslims fought back and reclaimed the land in 633. For the next 400 years, until the Crusades, Palestine was fought over by rival Islamic factions – the Babylonians (Iraqis), Egyptians, and Turks all ruled from time to time.

In 1099, the first wave of Crusaders came, and the land was fought over by Christians and Muslims for the next 200 years. After the Christians were finally defeated in 1291, the Mongol army took advantage of the situation and conquered the Arabs. The Mongols kept control of the land until the Turks (and Egpytians) conquered it in 1517.

Save a temporary invasion by Napoleon in 1799, Palestine was a part of the Ottoman Empire from 1517 until the end of the First World War in 1918, when it was conquered by the British. Now is where the story gets complicated.

In 1922, the League of Nations passed the Palestine Mandate, which established Palestine and Transjordan (present day Jordan and the West Bank) and encouraged Jews to return to what they considered their homeland. Initially, the Arabs didn’t object, but as anti-Semitism increased across Europe, more and more Jews returned to Palestine. The large influx of people caused two Arab rebellions, one in 1929 and one from 1936-1939. The increased violence was from both Jews and Arabs, and the British government labeled both groups terrorist organizations.

In 1941, the head mullah formally declared jihad on the Allied Powers, as their show of support for the Axis. In 1944, a Jewish extremist group assassinated the British Minister for the Middle East, turning Churchill against the Zionist movement that had been gaining steam. This single action caused Churchill to seek out the friendship of Egypt and Saudi Arabia as strategic partners, despite the Arab support of the Axis.

Immediately after World War II, there were about 250,000 Jews that were held in detention camps across Europe. US President Harry Truman tried to get the British to allow 100,000 of them access into Palestine, but the British refused. Jewish terrorists then began a systematic attack of British targets in Palestine, the biggest of which was the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which killed 100 people. Churchill had made his alliances with Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and had little need for Palestine, so in 1947, England announced their intention to withdraw from Palestine in May of 1948.

The newly formed United Nations saw an opportunity to legitimize itself, and founded a special committee on Palestine. They considered two options – one for separate Arab and Jewish nations, and one for a single nation with Jewish and Arab partitions. The former was selected by the UN, but Palestinians and Arabs across the world opposed it vehemently. Despite their objections, Israel was made a nation in May 1948.

Arabs have tried to conquer Israel by force several times – in 1949, the Six Days War of 1967, and the Yom Kippur War of 1973. Each time, Israel was able to repel the Arab attack, even when they were greatly outnumbered. Their military might is largely due, then and now, to the equipment sold/given to them by the United States.

All of this really began after WWI. From 620 until 1922, there was no significant Jewish presence in Palestine at all. For 1300 years, Arabs ruled the area. The Jews didn’t conquer it – they were given it - not by God, but by a political organization. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs were relocated to other places.

So, you ask why Arabs hate the US so much? Our leaders pushed for Jews to go to Israel after WWII (mostly because we didn’t want them, either). An organization that was the brainchild of American politicians led to the creation of the state of Israel, which included one of the holiest sites of Islam (the Temple Mount in Jerusalem). Arab attacks on Israel have been thwarted by weapons given to Israel by the United States. American troops are stationed in the holy land of Mecca and Medina. American forces have invaded Iraq twice in the past 15 years. Americans have attacked Muslims in Serbia, Croatia, and Somalia in the past 15 years.


Not that I sympathize with the bastards, but when you consider the entire historical account, you can see where they’re coming from.

[Grommet]

I though Allah was the same as God. And the only difference was that Muslims belived that Jesus was just a prophet like the Jews did. The split in the religions came when the last prophet Mohammad came and gave them the Koran or what ever the books were called and he was not recognized as a prophet by the Jews and Christians.

[lower14]

[quote="Wingman"] However, the Jews and Christians are considered infidels to Muslims because of their belief in God, not Allah. [/quote="Wingman"]

Actually, Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God. The Jews and Arabs are both descendants of Abraham and worship the God of Abraham. Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God; Jews and Muslins believe Jesus is a powerful prophet, but a prophet only. Islam follows the teachings of Mohammed and Jews the Talmud and Torah.

[Hunter007]

Wow, yall must have done good in history. I've read all post but are still going back to the question..why are they not attacking Israel? I don't see Bin Laden taunting Israel. I wish they'd catch that caveman.

[Wingman]

That is a great summary of recent history, lower14, but I listed the early basis for the cause of unrest. I can tell from your first sentence that you don't believe anything I said, so arguing the point will get us nowhere.

I only have one problem with your statements and it is this lie:

Now, in 622, Mohammed founded Islam, and ascended into Heaven on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem (which is why Jerusalem is sacred to Muslims).

Actually, Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God.

No, they don't.

There have been many cults and false religions throughout history, with Islam being one of the latest and greatest. Islam was not around during biblical times, but many other religions were, as is evident in Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian and other cultures. Even the Israelites worshipped false gods (golden calf, Baal, etc.) and were punished for it. If you read the Old Testament you will see that God allowed them to be conquered and taken into captivity as a result of their turn from Him. No, Allah is not God, but you will be confused about that statement if you listen to mainstream media and the popular world view.

If you will read the Bible, you will find where many nations, including Israel, have worshipped false gods and have been punished for it. You will see that the last split between the Jews over religion was when Christ came to Earth. Even when he was here, you had the religious leaders of the day in denial that Jesus was God and they wanted Him dead because he preached it. So you've got Jews who believe the Old Testament and Christians who believe the Old and New Testaments. Then you've got false religions that have added even more to the Bible and they believe their own little stories. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's how it is.

Of course, if you don't believe the Bible, you will not believe any of my points.

I'm not going to take this into a religious "you're wrong, I'm right". If you want to read it for yourself, pick up the Bible. Some good stuff in there. I gave you my opinion...take it for what it's worth.

[Grommet]

Wow, yall must have done good in history. I've read all post but are still going back to the question..why are they not attacking Israel? I don't see Bin Laden taunting Israel. I wish they'd catch that caveman.

They don't F*** with Israel because of F16's and M-16's. We have given and Israel has purchased large amounts of both. They are not afraid to use them as was shown when they "accidentally" bombed a few middle eastern nations in the 80's. They are skinny but they are strong.